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Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
2584
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Posted - 2012.07.05 17:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
Cearain wrote: However, I would note, the minmatar have been unable to get to tier 5 after the goons stopped lending a hand and the npc changes. Even after taking those 4 systems I'm not even sure minmatar can hit tier five. Even if they weren't selfish grubby fools, and donated some lp to thier systems I don't think they have enough systems to hit tier 5 anymore.
You there is a logical explanation for that situation Cearain. Pretty much everyone who had LP points stored up cashed out at 5 and spent everything. Its senseless to spend lps boosting random systems again until there is a critical mass of 1m LP+ militia people wanting to cash out again and then you'll probably see the tiers do a short term spike to 4.
Tier 5 always was a pretty extreme result and was only possible due to the near total collapse of the enemy territory prior to the patch. I get the impression CCP didn't intend any one side to get or hit tier5 outside of once in the blue moon - and certainly not in a situation where both sides are relatively-evenly matched in space.
When you look at Amarr numbers of fighters vs Minmatar numbers of fighters it varies between 1-1-1.5 to one (generally in the Amarrian favour at the moment) That would suggest that the Amarrians should be able to take and hold at least 50% of the warzone and most likely both sides should achieve a fairly reliable tier 3 (especially at cash out time)
Expecting the Minmatar to get tier 5 regularly when the numbers in space are even (or mostly in amarrian favour) is a bit of a ridiculous position to take.
All the Goon exploit achieved was to save the TLF a few million LP points to push the required numbers of systems (they had already taken) to 5. But only a fool expected that situation to last long into Inferno because its literally inconceivable that the Amarr side with more pilots in space would fail to quickly retake a large proportion of their pre inferno lost systems.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
2584
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 19:10:00 -
[2] - Quote
Cearain wrote: There are millions of lp going to minmatar every time a system flips. Not including millions the minmatar in gallente space are getting as well as the hordes of mission runners. The lp doesn't run out. But when ccp finally balances the npcs just a tiny bit, we already see the expectations go from tier 5 to tier 4. (And is that even your own admission you anticipate it going to tier 3?)
When the level 5 cashout happened I think we were close to the absolutely minimum number of systems required to achieve that. You guys only need a couple of systems to make level 5 actually impossible. As I said to you earlier its kinda ridiculous to expect a situation in space that has amarr routinely outnumbering minmatar to lead to a situation where 80% of all systems remain in minmatar hands.
But the main point you neglected to address was that there is no need to maintain a high level of system upgrades unless people collectively decide its going to be a cash out day, And most people have already cashed out. Now sure, the mission runners and offensive plexers will soon get their millions again and when they do I expect short term peaks to tier IV to optimize the cash out again - but there is no benefit to maintaining tier IV at other times in the vast majority of systems.
Only way this changes is if CCP did something to make the system upgrades a bit more exciting.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
2584
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 19:55:00 -
[3] - Quote
Cearain wrote:
Again I am calling this out now so that when the npc balancing is done and minmatar is washed up we will be able to see your days of tier five in the right perspective. We will know that it was because of your huge npc advantage. If that weren't the case then we would see you continue to dominmate like you did before the npc changes.
Ah well Cearain, while I continue to disagree about a number of things you say, I can understand and even empathize with the anger you feel at the way CCP has left some long-term imbalance in place (mostly from pre inferno I must say). I dunno, sometimes it does probably seem like we're playing the wrong game - but sadly for all our sense of natural justice there really isn't an alternative to an open pvp space opera game.
I guess the way you feel about faction war is similar to the way I feel about the moon-mineral exploitation in 0.0 that's led to a distorted and devalued reality there in the player-led sandbox (or more recently in the fiasco of the 1.1 wardec changes to benefit large alliances alone).
Guess what I'm trying to say is that I understand that you are angry with the game and its easy to target minmatar (as those players who have benefited in your eyes from the imbalance) don't get too bent out of shape there - not everyone is your enemy on an ooc level.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
2592
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 13:21:00 -
[4] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Jade Constantine wrote:As I said to you earlier its kinda ridiculous to expect a situation in space that has amarr routinely outnumbering minmatar to lead to a situation where 80% of all systems remain in minmatar hands. How do you come to the conclusion that Amarr outnumber Minmatar? Last I checked Minmatar had more members than Amarr and with current imbalance do you really think this will even out in the future? But lets assume we really did outnumber you. Do you still think our thrashers are even against your faction cruisers? I can see that you like the current situation and want to think that you are this good. But it is only self-serving bias and it actually makes you stupid.
I think we both know that plex-leeching alts don't really count (and plenty of them are operated by the amarr on the quiet!)
But I am speaking of confrontations in space, that I've been part of, where I've seen the Amarrian side quite capable of significantly outnumbering the Minmatar fleets. Now maybe that won't always be the case - who knows, but I do know on current evidence of capability the Minmatar do not have a fleet advantage of 5-1 over the 24th (which is what you'd logically expect to be the case to see 80% domination of FW systems).
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
Jade Constantine
Jericho Fraction
The Star Fraction
2592
|
Posted - 2012.07.07 15:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
Lexmana wrote: you are outnumbered - like everybody else. And how many SFIs do you really need to take out a few T1 fit thrashers?
And how many times have you seen me flying SFI's against your thrashers - usually I'm in a thrasher myself (or a catalyst) so please stop making silly assessments. Most recently I've noticed your amarrian comrades flying a lot of fleet stabbers actually - earned through their minmatar alts - so lets not pretend the situation doesn't have workarounds that you lot are quite capable of discovering and utilizing to your benefit.
The True Knowledge is that nothing matters that does not matter to you, might does make right and power makes freedomInferno Wardecs - Shoot Goons for FREE $300,000 dollars :(-á |
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